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Is it? Modern roofing is pretty complex and is begging for innovation, even with materials that don't generate electricity.

Anyone wanna disrupt the roofing industry with me? YC W27, tagline "like uber but for roofing". roofies.ai?

Serious question: Are you sure solving abstract mathematical problems with AI is responsible use? You will likely put mathematicians out of jobs, and I doubt solving the Collatz conjecture is urgent or will save lives. It also robs a future Fields medalist of the pride of doing all by themselves.

All things AI seems to assume that more and faster is better, but there is no justification of that assumption. As a biological counterexample, a tree grown quickly will likely not be as healthy or strong as one grown slowly.


I dunno, I like math and I still think automatically solving problems is worth doing. If problem-solving is a hobby then it will still be a hobby after all this. If it's about doing things for humanity--which it often is since many thousands of people are paid to do it--then doing it more efficiently benefits humanity. If the value on the other hand comes from people being extremely good at math, rather than from them solving novel open problems, then we should pay them to do that, which is independent of whether the open problems are solved or not. There's just no version of this where "not solving the problems" is morally justifiable.

Now, I think it's the case that professional mathematics spends way too much money on open problems and way less than it should on pedagogy, exposition, mastery, etc. But that has always been a problem, even decades ago (I've been complaining about it my whole life). AI just finally puts pressure on the world to do something about it. I find it relieving, honestly. And I'm an AI skeptic in many other ways; it's not an AI-maximalism thing. I genuinely think the state of the field of mathematics has been something of a disaster for a long time (thanks, largely, due to the academic incentive structure which heavily favors novel results, no matter how esoteric).


> you will likely put mathematicians out of jobs.

why is that a concern in this context? would you have asked the same about steam engines and horses?

this is a really cool concept, organized very well. and that is very commendable.


steam engines solved a problem people had

If mathematicians aren't solving problems people are having (which your comment seems to imply), then putting them out of their job with AI is not a bad thing. Of course mathematicians are solving problems, just in a very different way than other professions.

I suppose iphones solved a problem people had as well?

Don't respond to a strawman argument with another strawman. The post you are responding to ignored the reasons given in the second paragraph. They're just trying to score points by preaching to the choir, not engage with the concern.

what strawman?

do you mean,

> All things AI seems to assume that more and faster is better, but there is no justification of that assumption.

is good argument?

of course faster discovery without human in the loop is better. is that not what humans have been optimizing for the past few thousand years ? faster mobility, faster communication, faster medical recovery etc. everything modern civilization has to offer is because of a rush to get better and faster. for example, discovering penicillin 2 years early would've saved ~15 million people more.

why is that not worthy enough to pursue?


FWIW even Astra hasn't been able to solve the problems I care about, which are less about proving theorems and more about understanding the right way to think about already existing stories (and thus permitting extensions to new contexts). However it's been a more than a capable interlocutor to test my ideas with and see if they actually have any content. It's also great for parsing possible mistakes in long technical arguments that at least my brain isn't wired to verify completely satisfactorily. Personally, I think it's good to know what is made trivial (meaning depending only on token expenditure) vs what remains a real hard kernel.

I don't think AI will solve more math problems in a world with Mathathon than the counterfactual by EOY. People will use AI in math anyways. What matters is: can we encourage them to do so transparently and with full understanding of their results? Can we change the incentives in academia to reward problem selection and verification over proof generation?

It’s a noble goal to change the incentives, but how will you prevent the headlines from this event being “students prove Collatz conjecture with Claude” and instead be “students give great explanation of Collatz conjecture proof”?

You're right that we can't. We'll be responsible in our press releases and award prizes based on explanation, but we don't control the headlines. However, this is already an improvement over the current state, where results are announced by headlines alone.

Perhaps monetary prizes would help? "Doe & Smith explanation of Erdos #423 solution wins $10,000 prize" would certainly attract attention.

It's more responsible than the use of electricity for a messaging board for people to argue minutiae.

I get your point and agree to some extent, but you can't understand the proof without significant background in Maths so it will just allow mathematicians to solve issues faster than not have the opportunity at all.

Why do people need to understand proofs? If Amazon improves package routing with new advances in graph theory, my cat doesn't need to understand it to benefit from better shipments of cat food.

Similarly, humans don't need to be involved in scientific advances to benefit. We just need an aligned AI to take over the scientific thought for us. AI is already better than all but the top tier of humans at doing mathematics, it's writing most of the posts on the front page of this website, and it's doing the bulk of programming at many startups.

We can't put this genie back in the bottle.


Well, for one, most math proofs don't have any practical applications, so a proof that no one reads is basically a digital paperweight. You might as well suggest AI write novels for other AI to read.

The hope is that some of them end up being useful; otherwise, nobody would be funding math departments. Mathematics typically anticipates and enables new physics and chemistry.

If people are just doing math to kill time, I don't get why anyone would bother with AI. Do people really enjoy picking through a million lines of generated Lean code, if it's not for any practical use?


If you're interested in the topic enough to comment on it, you'll probably find it worthwhile reading a mathematician's perspective. Here's the prolific Terry Tao: https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/117219548485446992

They don't actually say anything about why anyone should fund this, though. I don't get why a society should worry about progress in mathematics if there's no practical benefit expected.

Maybe there's two kinds of math that we need? Useful math and navel gazing, and we can hand the first to the machines, and let hobbyists do the second in their free to entertain themselves?


It's hard to know what math is 'useful' a priori. That's always been the argument for supporting basic research. This is not why I am a mathematician however. I think there's intrinsic value into understanding something of depth and meaning, but the societal setup we have now that mostly agrees this is valuable is probably a very contingent phenomenon that is unlikely to last much longer.

Yes, so if there's useful math, you throw the LLM at it and use the results, no humans needed.

Humans can try to extract some ideas from the million line lean proofs, if they want to, I guess. But I can't imagine anyone really funding the human part of it.


It is the top tier of humans in these fields that are making the significant breakthroughs. The top tier of breakthroughs are not being post on here (which are nowadays usually short form articles of not incredible quality). The code at start ups is not commonly in the top tier of a breakthrough. AI can do averaged work and derivations off what has gone before which Maths works very well for as there is a clear set of rules. The same in physics if you ask AI for help adapting a simulation, yet it couldn't pluck the idea if no one has done it before.

Pure cope.

Also true. HN is not the peak of human intelligence.

It's not backward, it's too forward. No one got arrested 100 yrs ago for letting their kid walk around alone.

/loop ?

Yes, because no employee with million-dollar comp has ever been untrustworthy in the history of business.

That's impressive. I thought the NetHack wiki would be older, but it dates to 2005, although I suspect there was an earlier version somewhere else.

I highly recommend getting the full book. This should be required reading for every housing developer. If you ever felt like a house or community was uncomfortable or made you subconsciously unhappy, you might find the reason in this book.


I'm sure that was 100% secure, too. /s (I did the same thing back then.)


The link OP submitted appears to be a webpage displaying a screenshot of another web page, and the image aspect ratio has been altered. It's so comically bad it had to be on purpose, or someone is doing their web dev in MS Word.

Edit: I think actually it's a screenshot of a screenshot even, and this appears to be the entire design of spaceweather.gov. What in the holy heck is going on there? This has to be a top 10 worst website designs of all time.


Statistically overdetection leads to poorer outcomes because interventions have a risk as well. That's why everyone doesn't get a yearly full body CT scan, for example. The current guidelines are based on optimizing for maximum good, and believe it or not some things are best not known about because the risk of dying from it is about the same as the risk of the treatment.


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