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Diplodocus, Long Thought Exclusively American, Turns Up in Spain (sci.news)
104 points by embedding-shape 5 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 62 comments
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> The Spanish Diplodocus lived roughly 150 million years ago near the end of the Jurassic period.

> [...]

> According to the team, the presence of Diplodocus in Iberia offers strong evidence that dinosaurs moved between North America and Europe during that era, likely crossing temporary land bridges that appeared as the proto-North Atlantic Ocean periodically receded.

I want a map! I found this: https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/167017/view Is it the correct map? Is there a land (ice?) bridge between Newfoundland and Portugal? Am I interpreting it correctly?


Else comment I made, trying to answer that same question, I found https://thepangeamap.com - one of the neat features is being able to put dinosaurs in the timeline. The Paleotopography selection (rather than GPlates) also gives hints about the expected height and depth of the land and sea.

We could save a lot of money and emissions if we brought the continents back together! Imagine Paris to New York by high speed train.

Ew no, not with the Americans behaving the way they are now. The Atlantic is fine where it is thank you very much.

As an American...I concur. The rest of the world doesn't deserve that.

Americans behaving the way they are now and Parisians mixed together? Hell on Earth

During the world cup, I saw mostly very positive reports on the experiences Europeans had with Americans, and vice versa.

Hello, you are going against the internet narrative of "america bad" please stop doing that.

Look for reports from the Iranian team. I bet those weren’t as widely publicized as the rosy positive ones.

Iran isn't usually described as European and I did qualify my statement with mostly.

I know it’s not European. Great job missing my point entirely.

If you thought I was claiming everybody had a great time, then you are a missing my point.

Nice on a personal level in real life but not when dealing with a population in the abstract? Say it ain’t so!

Yes, I have very positive interactions with people outside of the US, and (hopefully!) most of them would say the same about me. That doesn't mean that what my government is doing isn't really shitty though, or that I would expect the other 350 million people around me to be uniformly positive to interact with. For starters, a lot of them voted for the government that's being like this, and although that doesn't necessarily mean that they would interact poorly with people from countries that are having to deal with the fallout, I wouldn't blame someone for not wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt, or even not wanting to give me the benefit of the doubt (I can't prove how I voted, and even if I could, it wouldn't be unreasonable for that to be considered insufficient for exculpability).

My honest impression is that most of the time when governments are at odds, the people living in the countries will often not share those sentiments when interacting at an individual level. During the brief period when TikTok was unavailable in the US (before the ban kept repeatedly getting pushed until they finalized Ellison et. al. acquiring the US rights for it), a lot of people apparently went onto a Chinese social media app as a silly form of rebellion, with both sides basically agreeing the whole thing was silly and that even they their governments thought they were enemies, the citizens didn't have to.


Foux da fa faa...

Fair.

Perhaps we can extend the Black Sea to keep those dirty Russians out of Europe


I would think so yes. But not an authority on this.

The map is super cool though. Makes you think of the earth as something still aging since it looks clearly “earth” but with major differences.


> map!

Maps.[1][2]

Too far south for an ice bridge - Newfoundland is south like modern Florida - tropical. And it's the Jurassic, hot with high sea levels, so even though its continental shelf extends out towards Spain, there are no ice ages to bare it (as was the Eastern US shelf a mere 12k years ago). But Pangea is ripping apart, it's a mess with crust blocks variously uplifted and tilted, massive weathering and sediment fluxes, so...

From the TFA paper[3]:

During the early Mesozoic, North America and Europe were connected to form the western and central part of the supercontinent Laurasia. With the opening of the North Atlantic during the Late Jurassic and earliest Cretaceous, the region fragmented into smaller tectonic units55–58 that might have periodically formed contiguous land masses57,58 during sea level low-stands, characterized by exposure of continental margins and draining of continental interior seaways55–58. The presence of a land bridge between North America and Europe during the late Kimmeridgian-earliest Tithonian13 might explain similarities in some dinosaurs such as Stegosaurus59 and Allosaurus60. However, the absence of turiasaurs in the Morrison Formation suggests that this clade dispersed into western North America after the mid-Tithonian. Thus, unless we wish to argue that turiasaurs were actually present in the Morrison Formation but have not been found yet, a second later land connection between Europe and North America is required. Specifically, during the mid-Valanginian (c.137Ma), a dramatic drop in sea level7,55,56 potentially reconnected Europe and North America and so permitted a fi al exchange of vertebrate clades across the Atlantic. Th s Valanginian event could also explain apparent faunal exchanges between these continents proposed for the late Hauterivian-early Barremian13. Taxa that seem to disperse in the Hauterivian/ Barremian might actually have done so during the Valanginian lowstand, but gaps in the fossil record mean that the results of these dispersals might not be detected until we access better sampled post-Valanginian deposits.

58 is available with a plate.[4] 57 is old, with only low-res global plates, ggl books preview has 138 Ma on p42. 56 I skipped. 55 is available[5] but is temporally low res.

There's a 2016 paper Late Mesozoic North Atlantic land bridges[6], Elsevier paywalled with excerpts, and on sci-hub.

And that's my time budget.

[1] https://portal.gplates.org/cesium/?view=topo_recon [2] rocks: https://portal.gplates.org/cesium/?view=GeologyR key: https://portal.gplates.org/portal/geology/ [3] quote is on page 9: https://dinodata.de/bibliothek/pdf_d/2017/001_s41598-017-146... [4] paper ref 58, 150/136 Ma plates on page 31, key on page 29, 3 MB but downloads slowly: https://archimer.ifremer.fr/doc/00117/22805/20913.pdf [5] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Golonka-Jan/publication... [6] Late Mesozoic North Atlantic land bridges (2016). Available on sci-hub. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00128...


Apparently I'm a bit slow today, because my brain started completing the headline as "Diplodocus, Long Thought Extinct, ..." before my eyes could finish reading it.

> The animal’s fossilized remains — 14 well-preserved tail vertebrae and several chevron bones — were unearthed at the La Tejería site near the city of El Castellar in the Spanish province of Teruel.

According to Wikipedia (if I'm reading correctly), the chevron bones are also part of the tail [1]. It's pretty cool how such a small part of the skeleton can carry so much information!

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemal_arch


“Diplodocus, Long Thought Extinct, turn up in Spain” yep same here

That damned loch ness monster

Poor Nessie always gets confused with her land dwelling counsins.

Original article (in Spanish), from the source itself: https://fundaciondinopolis.org/un-descubrimiento-paleontolog...

I am not a dinosaur expert, but the headline seems off. The actual paper linked from sci.news starts with this (citations removed):

> Diplodocids are known from deposits present in the U.S.A., Europe, South America, and Africa. According to the available evidence, the oldest diplodocid sauropod dates back to the Oxfordian of Europe, whereas the most recent ones are from the lowermost Cretaceous of South America and Africa.

It als says that "The European diplodocid fossil record is scarce and fragmentary," but that still sounds like evidence for Diplodocus in Europe, doesn't it?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/10.1080/02724634.2026.271842...


Only thing I could hear when reading the title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VWxl0YUT4o

Is "American" a nationality where maybe "North American" a geography? I don't think Diplodocus has US citizenship...

The Americas, sometimes collectively called America, are a landmass comprising the totality of North America and South America.

American as in the continent, US the country has nothing to do with this

Once again, history and medicine are two fields that reliably make me happy. Dinos were my faves as a child and they continue to inspire. The way we (my family) mispronounced this one: diploDOEcus. But I also got Heredotus very wrong, so I guess it was a Midwest thing.

Even the dinosaurs are abandoning the USA.

Back in the day, they migrated away, only to be brought back as diesel fuel today. ;)

Diplodocus?

* DnB beat drops *

> Diplodocus, Long Thought Exclusively American, Turns Up in Spain

Another example of quality American production moving overseas. Globalization will be the end of us


Reunite Pangea! https://thepangeamap.com (you can put Diplodocus on the timeline and see a projection of what the map was then)

Found another page with lots of interesting maps and visualization that seems hand/human made: https://earthathome.org/hoe/sc/geologic-history/

In the "Triassic to Jurassic (252 to 145 million years ago)" section further down, there is this image, which I think shows a kind of land bridge between the two continents: https://earthathome.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/North_Ame...


What's wild about this is that it makes really obvious how limited our perspective on dinosaur biodiversity is. Our best view on the best-known dinosaurs comes from a few places that were really good for finding fossils from specific eras.

Yea... I mean... yea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stratigraphic_units_wi...

And then you're using a bit of the west and Great Plains (Utah, Colorado, Montana, North Dakota) for all the different species that live in North America.

And beyond that, the other dimension. Diplodocus was around for 10 million years give or take... 10 million years before the Anthropocene and you were in the Miocene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Miocene_mammals_of_No...

We've only got snapshots of them in time - often from some disaster which aided in the formation of fossils... but all that other time, species evolved and went extinct without leaving a single identifiable fossil.

(One of my families great roadtrips of my youth was out to Dinosaur National Monument during a sibling's dinosaur phase... and it was neat. I was there on a road trip of my own in '09, but it hadn't reopened yet... someday I'll get back out there again.)


So according to this map, North America was separated from Spain by a body of water when Diplodocus was alive?

Looks like there was a land-bridge to "Europe" around the Jurassic-Cretaceous boundary if you stick it in Paleotopography mode.

(I like that mode better because it appears to show the actual landmasses at the time vs the plates with an approximation of the modern masses overlayed)


Oh wow! Now that's a cool site!

The EU is asserting its strategic independence and will no longer rely on the US for supplies of whip-tailed herbivorous dinosaur fossils.

According to latest executive order, Spain has been renamed "Spanish Peninsula of America". So Diplodocus keeps being exclusively American.

MAGA, owning the libs since 2016

They'd be so confused if they tried to come to Spain and spend time with other Republicans, their head would hurt wondering why all of them are either socialists, communists or anarchists.

Actually the reason they believe all the things that Trump says is because they don't leave America

Diplo in Ibiza is pretty normal nowadays… /jk ;)

How do we know it wasn’t an American diplodocus on a gap year trip to Europe?

Probably went one summer to run the bulls in Pamplona.

This probably is the most succinct way to write the title, but assigning nationality to dinosaurs is _weird_.

FWIW "American" might be more continental than national; my recollection is that one of the places where tons of dinosaur bones were found in the early paleontology days is Alberta.

I think that’s what most tripped me up. “North American” would’ve been clearer here.

Nah, this is a Yankee/American issue. Citizens of the US claiming a noun that belongs to the continent.

As someone who grew up in the Boston area and is a baseball fan, I always have a strong emotional reaction to someone referring me to as a Yankee. Those are the other guys!

I honestly had the opposite misreading; I thought it was intentionally trying to say it also had been found in South America, but from some googling I can't find any reference to that. Wikipedia seems to have already been updated to "North America and Europe"

North and South American dinosaurs were very different.

Yes, and the difference being that they did not build a huge wall between them.

Mild correction, but unless you're talking about something in Columbia or maybe Panama, I think what you're referring to is between North American countries.

Maybe in "Iberia" instead of Spain?

Iberia is an airline my dudes. (/s before someone comes correcting me about it)

Now here I thought it was the Byzantine Theme in the Caucases

Spoken like someone who's dinosaurs have never been to the moon.



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