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Say you live in Syria and one of these days wake up to find the other side of the street where you live completely smashed down by shelling. Oh, there's been a civil war going on (or so the media calls it; "public uprising" maybe?) for some time now alright, but you could be dead tomorrow, you need to understand.. what is truly happening? what's the prognosis? Better ask everyone around. Oh, it's the government, targeting rebels. Ok. Well, what's next? While at it: what's the rebellion up to now? Nobody among your acquaintances wants to talk about it, or knows anything certain. The official news is a joke and is of no help in any case. You've heard there are facebook groups for that, and you have internet.. better log on and post a message. Whoops, apparently somebody did not like your 'too neutral => pro-rebellion' point of view, and now various body parts of yours are being sent out to your relatives, as a message, or just because.

There's been actual demand for anonymous message boards for folks in Syria / friends/relatives of those living there to discuss matters, to understand what the hell is going on. I can't quote sources, though. And there've been incidents of 'facebook message -> whoops, body cut to parts', discussed in some CCC talks, though I haven't tried to follow up and find anything more conclusive. (could dig up the CCC video in question maybe.) In any case, a mere illustration.

Tor usage spikes up during Iran elections (next one's in June).

Folks in cartel-controlled places, or places where public uprising is happening, wanting to understand what is truly happening, or to organise something, etc. are afraid to post to FB etc., and sometimes they are very right to be afraid.

TL;DR This is for real.

[/drama mode]



None of what you say answers the question posed. Your concerns seems to be with the right of free speech, which is valid, but has nothing to do with being anonymous.


> Your concerns seems to be with the right of free speech, which is valid, but has nothing to do with being anonymous.

Oh but it does! See, if I were to reside in Syria and to simply post antigovernmental sentiments online, I very well might end up dead. I would not end up dead (not necessarily) were I to succeed in posting anonymously (let's simply say, 'under a pseudo + (somehow) hidden IP address'). 'Anonymous' here for me simply means 'my online identity [which can post things, read things, whatever] is not connected to my real identity', where 'real' can usually be simply be evaluated to 'my real name' and/or 'my physical location'. I would be too afraid to (merely) invent fake pseudonyms on FB - what if Syrian gov't were to succeed and subpoena FB (who knows) and acquire my IP address? Anonymity would matter very much to me!

However, at the same time I see what you mean. In this case, anonymity is a free speech obstruction circumvention tool, in a (limited) sense. Perhaps I'm a pessimist who does not really believe in free speech really being possible. (The regimes are simply extreme cases/illustrations of this.) :)


The value of anonymous free speech in the situation you describe (eg, Syria) should never be taken at anywhere close to face value.

It's nothing more than rumour and stories - precisely because it is anonymous! There is no way to verify it is anything: A true account, a biased account, a popular opinion or the ravings of a lunatic.

In areas where free speech does not exist, anonymous free speech adds nothing at all. It's basically the propaganda the reader wishes to hear. You may as well toe the government line.

Free speech only exists with attribution. Fiction and stories without. While I appreciate the struggles of those in the situation you describe, you advance nothing in an environment of anonymity.


While I see the gist of what you are saying, and the rumour / credibility thing is realistically always an issue in such cases AFAIK, I do not think it is true that "Free speech only exists with attribution [...] you advance nothing in an environment of anonymity."

If a new space for anonymous speech comes up, things will be chaotic at first, trust chains and circles - 'web(s) of trust' (not sure of terminology heh) do emerge, and I've seen it happen [citation neeeded]. Consider the Bitcoin over-the-counter marketplace (#bitcoin-otc on Freenode), where a web of trust (based on (potentially) anonymous PGP identities/keypairs) does function quite well (not without failures). Actually, if the identities are tied to something like a PGP keypair, it obviously works across (e.g.) forum boards (cough (Tor, etc.) underground forum scene cough). You could actually use PGP signature chaining, etc. (it does work very nicely!)

Of course, in my (vague) illustration, it'd be much more chaotic and nasty. The thing is though that in the end, people do sense a need to have a medium to coordinate efforts, exchange info, etc. (Consider also e.g. the idea that I can disclose my real identity to a select party (pre-arranged IRL, e.g.), but not necessarily to the whole forum. However, if that party is trusted by other nodes, then those nodes can trust me without knowing who I am. Lots of human factors and points of failure here, though. But it is not always futile!) At the very least, one could coordinate an IRL meeting (you would of course say, what if the organizers are covert government agents, etc.) In the end, a system connected to IRL matters and lives will have IRL-bound points of failure. That does not mean that it could (or does) not work, or that it would be as fallible as a non-(quasi-)anonymous solution.

But I agree that it's usually a lot of effort; not necessarily futile though, and that's my only point really.


In a country where government is not protecting the right of free speech, or where its protection is not enough to protect you from powerful organisations seeking to stifle it (which is pretty much every country in existence, since the government can not control everything everywhere) anonymous speech may be the only way to achieve free speech.


Anonymous speech has no value.

The issue is to create the right of free speech, however difficult that is.


Anonymous speech has a lot of value, which can be obvious from the fact that so many efforts are taken to stifle it. If it were ineffectual, nobody would bother to inhibit it. So it is obviously effective in influencing people. If it is effective, it has value.


You apparently didn't read his post? Sadly, there are places where the only free speech is anonymous speech.




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